Episode 153: The Power of Branding w/ Dr. Darryl Glover



This week Dr. Ted McElroy and Dr. Darryl Glover sat down to discuss core values and branding.


You can check out their full conversation here, by searching "EyeCode Media" in your favorite podcast app.





Read the full transcript below:


[00:00:00] Darryl: Hey, man. How's it going? I'm doing

[00:00:02] Ted: great. Daryl. How about you?

[00:00:04] Darryl: Doing fantastic. Let me just get this volume up right. Happy Friday, man. Yeah. Happy

[00:00:13] Ted: Friday. It's it's been a good one so far. I mean, I, I'm kind of always torn on these short weeks whether or not I like the short weeks or don't like the short weeks and it seems like I get everything crammed all into one day.

[00:00:24] It seems like this week,

[00:00:28] Darryl: I hear you, man. It's been a busy week for sure. So what

[00:00:33] Ted: is your typical week like that doesn't include.

[00:00:38] Darryl: Yeah. So my, my typical week you know, I work with my eye doctor and I I, I have a 2, 3, 2, 3 schedule. So two days out the week, I'll see patients one week and the following three and the other days I do professional services days.

[00:00:53] So our project project a special projects liaison. So I do a lot of our pilots helping to write protocols work with students, work with our marketing team. So in those other days, that's what I'm basically working on. And then outside of that, de-focus media, black eye care perspective just doing all those various things and, and being a dad, man.

[00:01:14] So, you know, that's, that's it in a nutshell. So it's kind of all over the place. This week was a travel week. So I really didn't have my typical schedule. So that kind of threw everything off with me because I'm, I'm awake, but I'm tired at the same. I know exactly

[00:01:28] Ted: what you mean. Yeah. And I got a text from Hank saying, Hey, do you know Dr.

[00:01:32] Darryl Glover? I said, yeah. He spoke for me at the, at CECO this year. I know him really well. He goes what? His year? I said, okay, I'm presumed. I mean, did he not come up and introduce? Yes.

[00:01:44] Darryl: Yes. You mentioned you that's right. I forgot all about that. That's that's how tired I am, man. He's first first or second year.

[00:01:50] First year. Yep. Yeah, because we spoke to them early in the morning, he came over and he's like, yeah. You know, Ted, I was like, absolutely man, small world.

[00:02:08] Ted: welcome to the vision of leadership podcast. I'm your host, Ted McEvoy. This podcast is dedicated to helping you find your wins. Have a better quality. And become the best leader you can be. Hey, have you subscribed to this podcast yet? Don't miss an episode. They're worth every single thing you paid for them, which is nothing because they're free.

[00:02:28] I invite you to subscribe to the podcast by hitting the subscribe button, give us a rating and a review on your specific podcast player. This helps us with our podcast rankings and makes it easier for people. And as always, please support those who helped support

[00:02:42] Darryl: us.

[00:03:09] Ted: On episode 102 of this podcast, Chris interviewed Justin Kwan, Michelle Andrews, and Richard Ruth. They pointed out that as a profession, we have done a great job of letting our patients know that myopia is not a big deal. If you can see 2020, there is no worry. It is the high myopes that are. And as they said, that message is tragic.

[00:03:30] Any myopia has a higher risk of maculopathy glaucoma and earlier cataract development in the, my site one day clinical trials, only 4% of study participants who got pro clear one days stayed stable in their myopia progression over the three-year period. That means you can confidently say parent by not going to a system geared to slow them out.

[00:03:50] There is a 96% chance your child's vision will get worse. This may take away some of the choice your child has in the future as to how they will correct their vision choice. Not fear of the disease associations with my OPI is what best resonates with parents when it comes to my opiate control for their children.

[00:04:08] And with Cooper visions my site one day, we now have an FDA approved, single use contact lens to lessen the progression of myopia in our patients. Contact your CooperVision representative to find out more about my site. One day contact. Welcome to the vision of leadership podcast. I'm Ted Mack, Roy. And today I have my very good friend, Dr.

[00:04:28] Darryl Glover. He is a I mean, basically what you're going to find out is there's a lot of stuff. He is you know, and he's in North Carolina working with my eye doctor as a clinical. Professional, but also working in their leadership structure. And I'm really excited about having him here today.

[00:04:47] Daryl and I got to meet first of all on a board for an advisory board and have I've had him have had him come speak for CECO at MedPro 360 a couple of times. And he's gotten some great reviews. Of course he does that every place he goes to speak. So Daryl, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for.

[00:05:06] Darryl: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm very excited to hang out with you because you know, there's a few people that I walk into a room with and I just sit down and I just listened and I'm in awe. And you're one of those people, as you mentioned, we, we met on a board many, many moons ago, and I just recall. When we were talking about a certain topic, you just started to speak.

[00:05:24] And I was just like, who is this guy? I gotta, I gotta learn more from him. Like, and, and you know, me, if I'm in a room I'd like to run my mouth like I'm doing right now. And I told myself that I was not going to say anything. I was just going to sit down, listen and learn. And that's exactly what I did.

[00:05:40] And ever since then, you know, we've had a tight relationship. You know, if you need something, you hit me up. If I need something, you hit me. And it's just been a great relationship from that day that we sat on that board. So thank you so much for having me on this podcast. I'm excited. I'm ready to have some fun.

[00:05:56] Let's have a conversation,

[00:05:57] man.

[00:05:58] Ted: All right, let's do that. So, you know, one of the things I really like to do, everybody's got their own origin story, like a superhero, you know, you're kind of that superhero when it comes to optometry. So tell me your origin story.

[00:06:11] Darryl: So superhero origin story. All right. So. The find that you're, you're, you're asking more of what superhero would I be, or just my background.

[00:06:23] Ted: You turned into be super optometrist. Everybody's favorite optometrist

[00:06:27] Darryl: and everyone's favorite optometrists. Okay. We'll check it out. It's an interesting story. How I became everyone's favorite optometrist. You know, most people are like, Hey, he just gave himself that name. But in reality, I did what happened is.

[00:06:41] Being a, an optometrist. I would go in day in and day out and I help my patients. And I would create a lot of value for my patients. And my patients will basically say, Hey, you know, you're my favorite optometrists. I never had an optometrist as great as you, man. I love you, man. I'm going to refer my friends and my family to you.

[00:06:57] Those friends and family would come in and they would say the same thing. And next thing you know, it's a chain reaction and it's spreading throughout the entire Raleigh Durham area. And everyone would always say, that's my favorite optometrist. And then they would tell my optical team members that my front desk, that my managers, that.

[00:07:13] And I was like, oh, wow. I guess I'm everyone's favorite optometrist. So I took that and I ran with it and then it started to go like crazy in the optical industry as well. Everyone would just say, Hey, that's my favorite optometrist because I liked the podcast. I liked the work he's doing. I met him, very nice guy kind guy.

[00:07:29] And ever since then, it's just been I guess my, my alias you know, Darryl Glover, your favorite optometrist, and we've just been building from there. So, you know, it's just one of those things with. You know, it's more than more than anything God's work, you know, putting me in the right place at the right time and creating value for that person.

[00:07:44] That's sitting in front of me and a, for anyone I was looking for optometrists, they just always wanted to refer, Hey, you got to check out my favorite optometrist, Dr. Darryl Glover. And I just took it. They ran with it from there.

[00:07:53] Ted: That's a great, great way to do it. I mean, one of the things that really points out is how important branding is.

[00:07:58] And I don't know anybody really in our industry who understands this as well as you do. I've heard you speak on it. I just, I've heard you just talking about it. Be honest with you. I, I, I think it's really important that we figure out what our identity actually is. And you've done that very well. H how did you decide to take the rest of your identity?

[00:08:19] Shape it into what you

[00:08:20] Darryl: have. Well, you know, I'm glad that you mentioned branding and I just was at a conference or a school talking about, you know, some important things that you need to take care of from day one. And branding was one of those things. And for me, when it comes to branding, it's really about if you can, at an early age, at an early point, figure out your why figure out your purpose, because once you're able to do that, Then the branding just all kicks in naturally.

[00:08:44] And for me, I was able to figure that out at an early age, you know, how I got into optometry was basically I started selling glasses at an early age and the person that was sitting in front of me, I remember it was the first day that I sold my first pair of glasses. They came in. They were like, man, I need a new pair of glasses.

[00:09:00] I'm tired of these. Literally feel them on the counter and said, I need a new look. I need a new image. I can't see any these just please help me and be there. I didn't know what I was doing. I just helped them. I just, you know, we went and we tried on every frame in the office and played around. And before, you know, we found something that he liked a week later, he came back, he picked up his glasses to, when I tell you this guy.

[00:09:23] Once he put on his glasses because he could see well, but also because he had a new personality, a new look at that point in time, I knew my purpose was to create the state of happiness through vision. And I told myself, you know, this is my thing. And as a result of. I kind of went from selling glasses to saying, Hey, I want to be the one that's prescribing that prescription.

[00:09:44] And that why that purpose has allowed me to grow this brand over time. My goal for every person that sits in front of me is to create happiness through vision, whether it's colleague to colleague, whether it's doctor to patient. That is my goal. That is my purpose. And my brand allows me to do that. And I build a brand around.

[00:10:00] I know that

[00:10:01] Ted: one of the things that's really important when you're looking at a brand is how do you decide how that brand looks? And I feel like part of this has to go back to core values. And you've talked about your core values. So would you mind telling us what your core values are? I mean, these are, I'm presuming these are your personal core values, not what you're building your business around, or maybe you can't quite separate.

[00:10:18] Darryl: The two of them. And you hit the nail on the head. You can't separate the two, you have to have your personal core values and they must align with your professional core values. And I always tell students, you know, whenever it comes to your core values and you're looking for an organization to join or partner with, make sure that the two align that way, you're always going to be on point with that organization to grow and amplify.

[00:10:39] Whatever it is that you're trying to do. But for me, I have three core values. You know, the first one is meaningful relationships. What does that mean? You know, you really want to make sure that you're able to create value for that person that's in front of you. You want to make sure that you can.

[00:10:54] Practice empathy with that person in front of you. You want to make sure that you have some type of self-awareness and, you know, these are things that, you know, help you on a one-on-one level on a personal level, but as an eyecare professional, it helps tremendously in the exam room. So again, you can see where those two things overlap.

[00:11:10] The other piece is continuous impactful. Growth, you know, what does that mean? I means I'm always learning. I always want to know what can I do to take it to the next level? How can I help someone else learn to be educated about something? So on a personal level, for me, that means reading books, whether it's a leadership book, whether it's a edgy something that's educated, education-related.

[00:11:30] In regards to I care, what can I do to create value? That's always going to continuously allow me to learn and get better as a person in the same thing, when it comes to the professional piece, you gotta go through your CE, not just to go there and just hang out, but actually listen, perfect. Your craft.

[00:11:44] Get better, create value for that patient in front of you, but you've got to continuously learn. And you know, my last core value is really about. Impacted change having an effective change. What does that mean? You know, what are you doing day in and day out? Are you truly changing that person's life that's sitting in front of you?

[00:12:00] Are you having a conversation? That's going to create value to who they are as a person. Are you having a conversation? That's going to create value to society? Are you having a conversation? That's going to create value. Your profession. And these are things that I'm doing within the different organizations that I'm a part of.

[00:12:16] With my eye doctor, I deal with special projects. They in and day out, we're running pilots to figure out how can we make it a better experience for our patients with de-focus media? You know, we're having an effective change, Dr. Jennifer by having conversations about hot topics legislation, you know, different things that.

[00:12:33] Change our industry for the better with black eyecare perspective, the same deal, you know, we're looking to create and foster lifelong relationships with African-Americans in the eyecare industry and we're running different projects, pilots getting more students in the pipeline, you know, creating effective change within the industry because we all know by 2045.

[00:12:53] The new majority will be the ma minorities. And in order to really be able to work with that new majority, you have to have that black representation. You have to have a knowledge of how to communicate. You have to make sure that they're sitting in these seats, whether it's executive board seats, things of that nature, but you know, all these core values align with me on a personal level, but they also impact my professional level as well.

[00:13:17] So.

[00:13:19] Ted: When you're looking at a particular decision, you are judging that next decision by those core values absolutely

[00:13:27] Darryl: are pushing us. If it doesn't align with me, I don't have anything to do with it.

[00:13:31] Ted: Right. And, and the one thing that does, I got to presume is it just makes it really simple when you're getting ready to make a decision of whether or not I'm

[00:13:38] Darryl: gonna do.

[00:13:39] Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's funny, you mentioned that because people are always asking, how are you able to make decisions so quickly? I just look at those three different core values and I look at my vision and just make sure that all of those things align. And if it does, then it makes sense.

[00:13:53] Ted: And for you, that's gotta be really helpful because let's face it.

[00:13:57] I guess the one question I have is to ask you is what exactly are you not involved?

[00:14:03] Darryl: That's a great question

[00:14:05] Ted: because I think it will be easier to answer that question then what you are involved in between defocus media you know, with your practice with your initiative in minorities with I mean, all the boards, you get the chance to speak into that.

[00:14:21] That's gotta be something that makes it very difficult sometimes to decide. The priority right now. And how are you sitting down and figuring out. What the time allotment has to go with each thing and not to mention the fact that, you know, right now, because of how things have gone with COVID, you can't be involved in your mission that you've been doing for years in

[00:14:39] Darryl: Africa.

[00:14:40] Yeah. So, you know, great question. And, you know, people always ask and about that time management as well, and honestly, too believe it or not everything overlaps, because again, it all aligns with my purpose, right? To create the state of happiness, to the art of vision. Each one of those projects that I have are all about vision.

[00:14:56] It's either, you know, educating colleague to colleague, colleague, the patient doctor, the patient, whatever it may be. But everything aligned. So I may have a call where someone's asking about how can we be active in black eyecare perspective. That same call goes into I want to be on your podcast for de-focus media.

[00:15:14] How can we collaborate there in the last project? Oh, you work for my eye doctor. That's a large organization. We're interested in getting our product into that company as well. So, you know, those three different conversations can be a 30 minute conversation all in one and it makes it easier to align.

[00:15:30] In regards to a time management. So it's really not a lot of work, not a lot of things because everything aligns with one common goal, one common purpose, and it makes it easier for me. So what

[00:15:42] Ted: kind of things have you stopped doing? In the last, say two to three years that you were doing on a regular basis.

[00:15:48] And now you've decided that has outlived its time for me.

[00:15:52] Darryl: So I had a clinic out in, in Nigeria and, you know, prior to COVID I was in a process of moving locations. So I took everything out of the clinic, then COVID hit. So I got equipment just sitting there during COVID it really allowed me to sit down and just kind of brainstorm, you know, I'm 38 years old.

[00:16:10] I'll be 39 years old this year. And it allowed me to sit down and think, you know, I need to be with my family. I can't be going back and forth at all times. So my goal was to partner with someone out there to be able to keep that practice moving you know, with COVID and some of the other things that took place in Nigeria, I wasn't able to do that.

[00:16:29] So when it comes to what things am I not able to do? I'm not able to be out there as much as I would like to be, because I really love the culture. I love the environment all that jug, jazz, love to travel. But that's one major thing that I haven't been able to do. And a big reason of that is because again, sitting at COBIT you're at home, you're with your family.

[00:16:46] I have a son now I have a newborn. I have a wife and being able to spend more time with them is a big thing that I need to focus on more than just making money or helping others on.

[00:16:56] Ted: Yeah. And one of the other things that happens too, because of what you're getting exposed to is you see a lot of new things that are happening in our industry.

[00:17:04] So what are some of the, maybe some of the newer concepts that most people wouldn't have heard about right now that you see as really interesting happening with our profession?

[00:17:13] Darryl: Well, I think, you know, something that I think is amazing right now. And I, I, I want to see more men get a part of this and join this movement.

[00:17:21] It's definitely ocular aesthetics, man. I mean, like, this is a big piece of eyecare and I feel like we're, we're sitting on it. I mean, there's no reason why as eye care professionals, we do not own this. We should be the leaders when it comes to talking about last lash, extensions eyebrows IPL, which I know we're seeing more of, but the ocular aesthetic realm, we need a home Botox, all that stuff because we're the ones that look at this day in and day out where the experts were trained on this in school.

[00:17:49] We need to be more in this world of ocular aesthetics. I mean, what are you doing in your practice? Are you doing anything with ocular

[00:17:55] Ted: aesthetics at all? Ocular statics, we are doing things with some dry with LipiFlow and of course, you know, looking at the other treatments that we're going to go along with that, we've one of the things we've been trying to figure out how to do is to treat.

[00:18:07] Do more non-covered services. And I know that's become a really big thing, especially with legislators now, legislatures passing different laws here in Georgia. We passed a law this year or last year, actually in signed in the law of the ability to not have insurance companies dictate whether we could do something at a certain price.

[00:18:25] If it was a non-covered service, we can charge whatever we need to do because it's non covered service. But you know, one of the particular vision plans is decided. The way they're going to afford their contract kind of circumvents that. So we're working for it with Goa and but those things are very important to me.

[00:18:42] Not just because of, not just because of the money that brings in the practice and that's nice, but if they slash our reimbursements, it makes it not worthwhile for the patient to have any more because we can't afford to do it. And that's why it's so important that we're looking for some of these non-covered services and they stay in that realm.

[00:19:01] It just always seems like. Just about the time you really get into it, somebody slashes the price and it really doesn't give you the benefit of doing it for anybody anymore. But as ocular aesthetics goes, we've got to actually, I've got a guy, literally a half a block away from here who they started just doing eyelash extensions and his girlfriend's business.

[00:19:22] He helped front and they become a supplier. And. Went from supplier, actually to a purveyor of education of how to do eyelash extensions in the right way. They've asked me about opinions on what I have about it, and they're supplying more education now than they're actually doing on materials. And they've really done quite well with their business.

[00:19:44] Darryl: And you see it. I love that. But just imagine if we had ownership of that, if we had someone in our practice that could do that day in and day out, you know, this is something that doesn't have to involve insurance. This is a cash pay patient. This can grow your practice and building into something else.

[00:19:59] See, the one piece that we have to realize is that with eyecare, we've been blessed to have that medical. But also the retail component. And if you're able to marry both of those perfectly, your practice will thrive. Your patients will be marketing tools for you day in and day out because everyone is concerned about their look.

[00:20:16] Women love to look great. Men love to look great. It's not just women. Men are big into this as well. Tons of men coming in asking questions about their eyelashes. I have men coming in asking about colored contacts. I mean, there's so much that we can do in regards to this this sector, but I just feel like we're not truly owning it.

[00:20:35] There's a few folks in our industry that has, you know, taken this by storm. And they're doing fantastic back to Janell Davidson. She's doing an amazing job. She's actually in Georgia. Right. And doing an incredible job. I mean, she actually. In her practice. And I'm just thinking, why can't we own that?

[00:20:52] Why can't we take advantage of that? And we all know all the implications of what makeup does to dry up to dry the eyes out and the damage that it causes. So we are truly the experts when it comes to this. So I just would love to see us have more ownership in regards to that. But that's one of the game changing things that I'm seeing right now in the industry.

[00:21:10] Ted: So. When you're looking at these different things to do, you've got to figure out a risk to a certain extent. How do you decide what's a good calculated risk versus what's a bad calculated risk.

[00:21:23] Darryl: Wow, loaded question there. You know, I'm a firm believer of really working with people that have done what I want to do and learning through their mistakes and their experiences and having mentors that I've excelled in this.

[00:21:38] So for me, it's more of teaming up with someone to, to get their insight, their feedback of their personal experience, but in this situation in regards to ocular aesthetics, just like that person that's down the street with. Bring them into your facility, give them a free place to do their business and figure out where you can partner in regards to profit and build from there and learn together.

[00:22:00] You have multiple locations. Once you give that master down, take that same concept and implement it into another, another practice. But for me, it's learning through other people's mistakes, having the right mentors, and then just teaming up with people that are already doing it because you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

[00:22:14] You can learn from others and have others. Actually do this as well for you.

[00:22:20] Ted: How do you identify? I mean, we're going to make this a little bit more general. How do you identify what trends are going to become the next big thing?

[00:22:30] Darryl: The youth. You have to, you have to have a digital footprint. You have to hang around young folks young folks, they're the future.

[00:22:39] They know what's going on. And the students whether optometry students or outside of our profession, you have to have your, your, your footprint on their playground. You know, it shouldn't be a surprise that dry eye is a big deal right now. If you look at how. The youth were using their eyes with looking at iPad, cell phones, gaming, things of that nature.

[00:23:00] You would know. There will be a big market for dry eye. You know, there'll be a big market for myopia control. These aren't things that, you know, everyone should be like, oh my goodness, I can't believe this is going on. Just look at the youth, look what's going on. And they're always going to dictate what the future is.

[00:23:16] So for me, I always keep my foot on the ground with teenagers with, with kids. When they walk into my office, I'm asking them what's going on with tip what's new things of that nature. Now I actually have an in-house expert. My son is four years old, so I can slowly watch and see what he's doing and what he's learning.

[00:23:34] And that's going to help me predict, you know, what's going to be a latest or greatest trend down the road and how I should practice in my office and what to look for and prepared for it so that, you know, the practice is a financially lucrative done.

[00:23:46] Ted: And that's one of the things that becomes a little more challenging too, as we age.

[00:23:49] I mean, you know your, your son four years old, you've got a long runway to see that kind of thing. My kids are 23, you know, so they're adults now and well kind of adults. But they're growing into that part. And the thing that they see as neat and cool is going to turn it into more of, well, I'm going to have a family of my own, so I don't have time to do all that cool stuff anymore.

[00:24:10] So. It's really incumbent upon us as practitioners to continue to stay plugged in when it's kind of harder to stay plugged in. So how would you recommend to somebody to do that from the next level? I mean, is it one of the things you do is obviously getting involved with the schools and talking to the, to the youth actually, they're going through optometry programs.

[00:24:32] How easy is it to make that connect?

[00:24:34] Darryl: Well, it's, it's, it's, it's pretty straight forward, man. I mean, number one, I feel like you should have a presence on social media just simply because you have to get play on their playground. But I think the easiest approach, honestly, Ted is being a mentor. You know, a lot of people feel like when you look at mentor, The mentor is the one that's giving all the advice and educating and telling that student or whoever it is, what they need.

[00:24:59] But in reality, when I mentor students, it's the opposite. I'm taking so much information from them. I'm learning so much from them that it's helping me become a better person, a better a physician, and I'm able to navigate through this. A difficult landscape of optometry in a better way, because I'm actually listening to them.

[00:25:18] So I think when it comes to, you know, how can you understand the trends and things of that nature? Just look at you being a mentor, but also look at in that same relationship, you be a mentee as well, and take in as much as you're giving to that person as well. Right?

[00:25:32] Ted: I mean, because if, as a mentor. How are you going to know what best to tell them if you don't know where they're living, you're not going to be able to reach them because you're not gonna be able to say the things that they need to hear at the right time, unless you're making that connection.

[00:25:48] So it's extremely important. I want to shift gears a little bit and get into our two nerdiness is on a podcast. Okay. You've been involved in podcasting for a couple of years now. And you've got a great podcast with your, with your partner and you guys actually have more of a network of podcasts. It's not just one, it's a network of podcasts.

[00:26:11] Correct. Tell me, what are some of the best lessons you've learned from some of your guests? Oh, wow.

[00:26:20] Darryl: I had a guest that was on not too long ago. And it was really about treating that person in front of you unlike any other and what he stated to me I believe it was Robert Bell. He said, treat that person as if they're going to die today. Yeah. And he said that simply because, you know, you never know what that person that's in front of you is going through.

[00:26:48] You don't know if they just lost someone. You don't know if they just got in a car accident. You don't know what's going on with them. You don't know if they're gonna pass after they leave your office, but treat them as if they're the last person that you're going to have a conversation. And if you do that to every single person and give them all the attention all the time, all the love, all the respect, you will never go wrong in patient care.

[00:27:11] That to me was one of the most powerful moments that I think I've ever had on the podcast. Just hearing that.

[00:27:17] Ted: W, you know, when you're looking at, I mean, again, we talked about this earlier. It's how much more you get out of these experiences versus what you get out of, you know, just listening to the podcast because now you're literally involved in it, but you're literally involved in the process of, of the learning, you know, because you're drawing out information that they might not have necessarily said mean.

[00:27:41] Yeah. You know, a lot of times it's also. A little more difficult, especially when you've got a personal relationship. I've found that sometimes doing these interviews with people that I know, well, it's a little tougher because you're trying to, you know, say things that everybody needs to know without digging into some of the stuff that maybe people wouldn't get the joke.

[00:28:00] You know what I mean? So what have been some of the more challenging interviews that you've done with your podcast?

[00:28:07] Darryl: Yeah. You know, some of the challenging ones have been. Really, you know, working with a lot of brands and then developing meaningful relationship with these brands. Putting them on the hot seat sometimes, man, you know, like if there's something that's going on and you're, you're, you have a different perspective of what they're doing.

[00:28:28] It can be a little uncomfortable to ask that tough question. And you know, there's been several times that I've been in that position. And it's been tough, but you know, you just gotta ask and, you know, you ask and sometimes that podcast, as it ended up going live, especially if it was a branded podcast, but you know, you got to stay true.

[00:28:47] I mean, the one thing that Jenny and I both told each other when we started the de-focus media podcasts was that if it's not fun, Or if we're not authentic, we need to stop the podcast. So every podcast that we do, we want to make sure that we're enjoying ourselves and we want to tell the truth. We don't want to just do something because we're getting a check or because we're getting some type of additional service or something like that.

[00:29:10] We do podcasts because we will. Bring the real deal want to be authentic. And we want to ask the tough questions. So for me, that question is really just, you know, when you have to put your colleague in that hot seat and ask to ask them those tough questions and take friendship out and look at, you know, how's this going to impact our eyecare industry?

[00:29:29] How's this going to make our profession better? How's this going to take down our profession? What can we do together to work together? To make it better. So, you know, asking those tough questions to close friends or putting them in a hot seat can be real, real difficult at times.

[00:29:43] Ted: I agree. I agree, boy, it does get a little touchy from time to time.

[00:29:48] You know, and one of the, I guess, more of the touchier topics and I'm going to. Take a little bit of the touchiness out of it. There seems to be always this commercial versus private practice discussion. Yes. Why can't this discussion be commercial and private practice? I'm a, I'm a firm believer in the law of abundance.

[00:30:07] There's plenty enough to go around for everybody. And with that being the case, why can't it be both? What's what's the, what's the, what do you think is the barrier from this discussion becoming. And discussion versus it being an oral discussion.

[00:30:22] Darryl: Yeah. Great question. Honestly, I think, you know, corporate.

[00:30:27] Whatever you want to call it. I think we should just call it up Thomas tree. You know, I think we we've, we've given too much power to names and, you know, people are looking at corporate as better private as be a better. And I think we've given too much power to that. I think the big barrier, and I hate to say this, but it's the truth is the school system the schools have always stated that private practice is superior than corporate optometry.

[00:30:52] And at the end of the day, There's going to be a practice setting for every demographic that's out there. And we all should have one common goal to help patients live their best lives and for them to be able to see and have the tools and resources to be able to be successful in life when it comes to the eyes.

[00:31:07] I mean, what we have to look at is that we are the gatekeepers to the healthcare system. And if we don't work together as a team, And if we don't educate students that we are just one team, not separate teams, we're going to continue to see this path take place. So for me, you know, I do feel that, you know, some schools are barriers for this because they're, they're big into private practice.

[00:31:28] And you know, that, that puts the puts shame on, on corporate optometry when, in reality, Which you have to look at is we all need to work together to solve that one common goal and that's to help the world see a brighter, better and clearer place

[00:31:43] Ted: the spotlight, maybe on some of those, what schools do you see they're doing a better job at that because you get a chance to jump into a lot of schools.

[00:31:49] Darryl: Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well you know, one school that I would say that has a great perspective of, you know, combining the best of both worlds is the new England college of optometry. Dr. Howard Purcell. I think academia needed him. And the reason why I say that is because his background is completely different from any other background in eyecare, in academia, when it comes to that Dean setting, at least from my knowledge him having a background of being an industry that was, that was, that was huge because number one, it changed the dynamic of.

[00:32:24] I've worked with private practice. I've worked with corporate optometry free. They both are doing the say and it also opened up the door to more funding from both of those ends. So if I had to pick a school, I would say the new England college of optometry. I also would say my school, Pennsylvania college of optometry at Salus university.

[00:32:42] I think. They have done a great job of really welcoming any vendors in to be able to talk to the students and participate with the students with a private or corporate. I think they have done a great job with that, and I'm not saying all schools, but I'm just saying, you know, historically there's been a big barrier at that school level.

[00:33:01] You know, working with students with my eye doctor, you know, going to these different schools, I can say that they have. Receptive to our organization coming in and they're showing us love. I have not met one school that said, no, you can't come in and have a conversation with students. But when you have those conversations with students on that one-on-one level, they will always tell you that they are told that they should go into private practice.

[00:33:25] Ted: Wow. Okay. I didn't really understand. I mean, of course, I guess since that's the only thing I've ever heard you know, as far as, and the only thing I decided, that's what I wanted to do. But I've never heard anyone. And that those terms before. And so I'm appreciative of the fact though that at least people are realizing that optometry is optometry.

[00:33:45] It doesn't matter where you're practicing it is how you're practicing it, that's it, you know? And that's the, that's the thing that we all need to get ourselves in the right mind for.

[00:33:53] Darryl: I think also I just had a great visit at U pike and a doctor beat down. And his team, they welcome me and my team there kindly warmly and it, it was a fantastic facility, fantastic school.

[00:34:05] One, a partner they just care about optometry. They care about the students. They care about, you know, them getting out of school and being able to find a practice modality that's going to accommodate their needs somewhere that they can go learn, grow, build a career and do something special in the eyecare.

[00:34:21] So. You know, I, if I had to pick my top Smith, definitely new England college of optometry PCO, where I come from and U pike all great leadership and all of those organizations. And I love it. And you know, I, I, this is where I get in trouble with podcasts, right. The more and more I sit down, I think about this.

[00:34:37] I think about my relationships. These are the tough questions you put me on the spot, right? I, I can't leave. Deep Flanagan right over at Berkeley as well. Right. But, you know, just from my perspective, it's more of, you know, someone in the schools are really educating the students that private practice is the way that you should go.

[00:34:57] And that's the only route that you should go when in reality. You really need to look at what's going to accommodate your lifestyle the best, and what's going to help you take care of your family the best and position yourself with that and make sure that whatever organization you join, whether private or corporate you know, your vision, your purpose, truly aloud aligns with their purposes.

[00:35:17] Ted: So you being as busy as you are, and me being as busy as I am how do we bring joy to our lives? I mean, because let's face it, you get too busy and some of that joy just gets sucked right out of it. So what are you doing to bring joy to your.